Life Goals

3 Questions for Angela Duckworth, Author of “Grit”

Angela_DuckworthA few weeks ago, Penn professor Angela Duckworth has published her first book Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance. And while she´s typically busy shipping exceptional research, giving TED presentations, or talking to the New York Times, it says a lot about her character that she also takes the time to answer some questions for my little blog thingy. So, thank you, Angela!

What are you up to these days? Just kidding… What does it feel like to have published a bestseller? And what part did grit play in the process of writing up “Grit”

I’m devoting myself to Character Lab, a nonprofit I founded with educators Dave Levin and Dominic Randolph three years ago. The mission of Character Lab is to advance the science and practice of character development. This includes helping children develop intrapersonal strengths like grit and self-control but also interpersonal strengths like gratitude and pro-social purpose and, finally, intellectual strengths like curiosity and open-minded thinking.

While I’m thrilled with the success of the book, I can also tell you that my attention is entirely on the future and new challenges. And, as for grit while writing Grit? Writing this book is the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I almost quit many times. So, yes, I used my grit to do it, and I learned a lot about grit in the process!

You´re incredibly successful as a researcher, but also as an educator, first via your TED talk, and now with the book. Clearly, a lot people are intrigued by the concept of grit. Still, I’ve read a couple of articles that give pushback to the concept for allegedly ignoring the socio-economic factors that lead to success in school and life in general. What’s your take on this?

At a recent conference, I sat down next to a sociologist. She knew my work, and it didn’t take long for her to express extreme disdain—even anger—for what she called the grit message. “What’s that,” I asked? “Well, put it this way,” she said. “I happen to think that poverty and inequality matter a heck of a lot more than grit.” I thought for a moment. Then I said, “I see your point.”

If you pit grit against structural barriers to achievement, you may well decide that grit is less worthy of our attention. But I think that’s the right answer to the wrong question.

Caring about how to grow grit in our young people—no matter their socio-economic background—doesn’t preclude concern for things other than grit. For example, I’ve spent a lot of my life in urban classrooms, both as a teacher and as a researcher. I know how much the expertise and care of the adult at the front of the room matter. And I know that a child who comes to school hungry, or scared, or without glasses to see the chalkboard, is not ready to learn. Grit alone is not going to save anyone.

But the importance of the environment is two-fold. It’s not just that you need opportunity in order to benefit from grit. It’s also that the environments our children grow up in profoundly influence their grit and every other aspect of their character. This is the grit message in my words:

Grit may not be sufficient for success, but it sure is necessary.

If we want our children to have a shot at a productive and satisfying life, we adults should make it our concern to provide them with the two things all children deserve: challenges to exceed what they were able to do yesterday and the support that makes that growth possible.

So, the question is not whether we should concern ourselves with grit or structural barriers to achievement. In the most profound sense, both are important, and more than that, they are intertwined.

I’ve pursued and completed a Ph.D. but the truth is: I entirely lost interest in the topic after the first year. Still, I hung in there for another 3.5 years for reasons that the founders of Self-Determination Theory, Ryan and Deci, would probably call “externally regulated”. And while I suffered emotionally during that time, I now do enjoy the upsides that having a Ph.D. entails at times. Was that grit? Or “stupid grit”? Or just stupid?

Good question. I might have asked myself, “Why am I pursuing this Ph.D.?” And in response, what would you have said? The answer gives you a higher-order goal—the “why” that gives meaning to the Ph.D. Was there a way to pivot in terms of your topic or research to achieve that higher-order goal?

And, in terms of pure interest, is there an adjacent topic to the one your pursued that you would have enjoyed more?* Interest and purpose are the drivers of passion, and I think if there is really no interest and no sense of purpose, you need not feel the compulsion to finish what you started.

Thank you, Angela – and best of luck with your book and the Character Lab!

Grit_DuckworthDr. Angela Duckworth is a professor of psychology at the University of Pennsylvania. She studies non-IQ competencies, including self-control and grit, which predict success both academically and professionally.

Prior to pursuing a career in academia, Angela was a McKinsey consultant and, for five years, a math teacher in several public schools. In 2013, she was selected as a MacArthur Fellow. Very recently, Angela has published her first book Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance with Scribner. It was an instant New York Times best seller and remains on the best seller list today.

* The truth is: When you don´t want to work on your Ph.D., you start to put a lot of time and energy in other things, just to have your calendar really, really stuffed as an excuse. For me, this led to discovering Positive Psychology in the first place, which then led to studying at Penn, which led to meeting Angela.

This is one of my learnings: Whether something is truly good or bad for us should probably not be judged in the moment. It often takes a couple of years to connect the dots and see the real value of our life´s episodes.

So, you´ve got a Bucket List. But what about your Fuck-it List?

I-dont-have-a-bucket-list-I-have-a-fuck-it-listOver the last two years or so, bucket lists have become really popular – a lot of people shared theirs via Facebook etc. According to the Oxford Dictionary, a bucket list is a “number of experiences or achievements that a person hopes to have or accomplish during their lifetime”. It´s based on the term “to kick the bucket” as a synonym for dying. The term was popularized by a 2007 movie feat. Jack Nicholson and Morgan Freeman. So basically, people write down on a list the places that they want to see, things they want to do, and goals the want to achieve. By now, there are specialized internet communities evolving around this topic.

And while I fully endorse goal-setting and following through with them (as long as they are self-concordant goals), having too many too aspirational goals can also be a burden in our life. That´s why I was pleased to stumble upon a sort of countertrend very recently:

The Fuck-it List

It´s a list (in this context) where you put all those things that once may have been on your bucket list – but then you’ve realized that you are too old (or rather: grown-up), too lazy, or simply too “different” compared to the time you put it on the list – to follow through with a specific goal.

With my own personal development, but also with some of my coaching clients, I´ve come to realize that old (outdated) goals can suck up a considerable part of a person´s (mental) energy – which than lacks in the process of pursuing current ones. People sometimes feel as a failure when they have to admit to themselves that they are never going to “climb that mountain” – or whatever it is that they´ve put on their bucket list.

But the truth is: we grow older and life moves on. It´s completely normal to have different priorities in different phases of our lives. When I became a father 2.5 years ago, this totally changed my priorities and my internal value system. And by all means, this also meant erasing some things from my bucket list and putting them on my fuck-it list.

But there doesn´t even have to be an incisive event such as becoming a parent. As I´ve said: sometimes, life just moves on. And if that is so, it can be a liberating experience to consciously let go of some of our childhood or teenage dreams. I´ve dreamt about becoming a professional athlete well into my twenties. But I wasn´t good enough (and probably too lazy as well). Still, goals like that can linger in the back of our heads (and dark corners of our hearts), causing trouble, in the form of regret, disappointment, anger, and most of all: putting energy where it would be desperately needed elsewhere.

Truth be told: when I decided to let go of my dream about becoming the next Boris Becker or Roger Federer, I did not just write it down on a piece of paper; I tried to find something more appreciative. If something truly significant and valuable like a childhood dream has been with you for most of your life, I advise you to “bid farewell” to that goal via a little ritual.

Back then, I wrote my dream on a piece of paper. Then, I put it into a small metal bowl. After that, I sat down on my porch, and took an hour or so to remember all the good things that came out of pursuing that goal: the tournaments I had won in my youth, the friends I had made, and simply all those countless hours of dedicated practice during most of my childhood – which surely have taught me a lot about diligence and resilience – therefore helping me to achieve whatever success I have now in my life as a business man and psychologist.

Then, I set fire to the paper, watched in burn down –  and finally scattered the ashes in the evening wind.

 

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